King 3B 1970s lacquer ? Repair?

berntd · 2020-10-13 3:11 a.m.

Hello,

My 3B has laquor loss around the gripping area.

The horn is a gold or goldisg brass colour.

But where the laquor is gone, it seems to be a silvery dull colour.

Not brass yellow.

So my questions:

Is the laquor actually a NON see through glossy metallic paint instead of a clear coat?

What are the exposed parts made off if not brass?

What laquor do I need to touch it up? And where would one get that?

Best regards

Bernt

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 3:34 a.m.

Yes, the gold lacquer colors the instrument on those horns. You're seeing the nickel silver slide grips and tubes underneath.

These 3B slides are exactly the same, minus the lacquer. You can see the difference-

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-13 4:46 a.m.

Oh wow, I actually thought the slide was supposed to be nickel silver colour.

My slide, except for the crook, is that silver colour and shiny where I see laquor on the slide and dull where not.

Can I fix the hand grip area on the bell section somehow?

BTW: how did you post that picture?

PhilTrombone · by **PhilTrombone** » 2020-10-13 9:52 a.m.

An old-timer's trick is clear nail polish. You do have to re-coat it frequently as it wears off. Would be tedious, you have quite a lot to cover there.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 4:29 p.m.

[quote="berntd"]Oh wow, I actually thought the slide was supposed to be nickel silver colour.

My slide, except for the crook, is that silver colour and shiny where I see laquor on the slide and dull where not.

Can I fix the hand grip area on the bell section somehow?

BTW: how did you post that picture?[/quote]

That's how your slide should look! If you don't have the gold lacquer, you have a clear lacquer instead. It's dull because nickel silver is not usually shiny unless it's polished or lacquered.

I post pictures by uploading them to imgur.com, then using the "insert image" button in the full editor with the URL of the picture in the brackets, like below (which has some brackets deleted so it'll show up)

[img <IMGUR id="9vF0uJw">https://i.imgur.com/9vF0uJw.jpg</IMGUR> /img]

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-13 5:05 p.m.

Thank you!

Where would one get this type of gold lacquer?

I would really like to repair the grip area, especially on the bell side.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 5:18 p.m.

[quote="berntd"]Thank you!

Where would one get this type of gold lacquer?

I would really like to repair the grip area, especially on the bell side.[/quote]

I don't think you can get it now... it came on some '70s and '80s horns.

If you want it to be relacquered, I'd just get it sprayed by someone good with newer lacquer.

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-13 5:35 p.m.

By "newer", do you mean a different colour or clear coat?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 5:46 p.m.

[quote="berntd"]By "newer", do you mean a different colour or clear coat?[/quote]

Clear coat! The older lacquer is colored, the modern stuff is not. I assumed you had the gold colored lacquer.

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-13 5:55 p.m.

Yes, I do have the gold. i think this would look terrible in all clear coat as some of the parts are not brass by the looks of it.

Have you seen them in clearcoat and does it look ok?

Elow · by **Elow** » 2020-10-13 6:08 p.m.

There’s different colors of spray on lacquer, in my shop we have gold and clear but i’m sure there’s other colors too but that’s the most common for small lacquer jobs

Basie1955 · by **Basie1955** » 2020-10-13 6:14 p.m.

In the photo, what lead pipe is being used? Looks like a press fit of some kind. And what’s the black plastic on the grip?

Thanks!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-10-13 6:16 p.m.

Here are some spray lacquers. This is from a US supplier, but I'm sure there are European ones as well:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.votawtool.com/catalogsearch ... ?q=lacquer">https://www.votawtool.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=lacquer</LINK_TEXT>

Note that there is clear and yellow. But no orange to match old King lacquer.

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-13 6:20 p.m.

Thanks.

I now wonder if it is just a matter of taking it to my automotive paint supplier and see if the can match the colour.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 6:45 p.m.

[quote="Basie1955"]In the photo, what lead pipe is being used? Looks like a press fit of some kind. And what’s the black plastic on the grip?

Thanks![/quote]

I have a Brassark 32H leadpipe, and that's the Neotech grip fitting.

Basie1955 · by **Basie1955** » 2020-10-13 7:15 p.m.

Hey Thanks, is that the copper 32H for .508 by Brad Close? Do you love it?

B-

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-13 7:43 p.m.

[quote="Basie1955"]Hey Thanks, is that the copper 32H for .508 by Brad Close? Do you love it?

B-[/quote]

I got mine in yellow brass. I do like it, it's much more open than the 2-piece that comes stock on 3Bs. It makes for a much darker, larger sounding 3B. I'm actually excited to have the other slide so I can have a bit more zip to the sound when I want it without playing quite as loud.

Driswood · by **Driswood** » 2020-10-30 10:30 a.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Basie1955" post_id="127728" time="1602627249" user_id="3292">
In the photo, what lead pipe is being used? Looks like a press fit of some kind. And what’s the black plastic on the grip?

Thanks![/quote]

I have a Brassark 32H leadpipe, and that's the Neotech grip fitting.
</QUOTE>

I got a Neotech for my 6H last December. I have rheumatoid arthritis, and almost dropped my horn during a concert because of the pain. The Neotech solved the problem! Using mutes has a learning curve, since I use my left hand to insert and remove mutes.

I'm getting a 32H lead pipe in nickel silver in next month. Looking forward to see how it works.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-10-30 11:28 a.m.

[quote="berntd"]Thanks.

I now wonder if it is just a matter of taking it to my automotive paint supplier and see if the can match the colour.[/quote]

Part of it is the base color of the lacquer, a LARGER part is the aging process which cannot really be duplicated!

Eric

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-30 4:28 p.m.

Hi Eric,

I do not fully understand what you mean.

Do you mean they age the laquor in a secret process during painting or what process do you mean?

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2020-10-31 3:57 a.m.

The lacquer already on your 3B is more than 40 years old and is not the same color as when it left the factory (chemical changes, UV degradation etc etc).

So even if you had the original recipe King gold epoxy lacquer AND the ability to apply(/bake) it, the color probably wouldn't exactly match the current appearance of your horn, and a spot-lacquer job covering existing damage is unlikely to work.

If this is particularly important to you, you will probably need to strip the bell receiver and the hand brace and respray just those areas with a gold lacquer. Presumably the flat flange on the bell is fine, so that can be masked off as if part of the bell. Given that the areas to be refinished are small, solid and cylindrical, there's no point in deploying chemicals - just strip and polish the area mechanically with appropriate flexible abrasives.

berntd · by **berntd** » 2020-10-31 5:02 a.m.

Ahh, you mean the patina of the old orange stuff.

I agree. Whatever we do will replcae that patina to something not original.

The saying that something is only ever original once does actually hold true.

But I am not sure if this particular patina is worth saving since it is not like a 1950s Olds patina but rather just plain worn and terrible.

That said, I have not and won't ruin it.

Technically, if I were to pursue it, I would try and get it matched in a 2k automotive laquor and then blend it into the problem areas carefully.

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King 3B 1970s lacquer ? Repair?