Is Edition Tarrodi Down?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Can anyone check to see if Edition Tarrodi, Christian Lindberg's publishing company, is down? Every time I try I get redirected to a Japanese clothing store.
www.tarrodi.se
I even tried using a VPN to switch to Sweden, and it still sends me to this other website.
www.tarrodi.se
I even tried using a VPN to switch to Sweden, and it still sends me to this other website.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Can anyone check to see if Edition Tarrodi, Christian Lindberg's publishing company, is down? Every time I try I get redirected to a Japanese clothing store.
www.tarrodi.se
I even tried using a VPN to switch to Sweden, and it still sends me to this other website.[/quote]
Link works for me today, here in U.S.A.
www.tarrodi.se
I even tried using a VPN to switch to Sweden, and it still sends me to this other website.[/quote]
Link works for me today, here in U.S.A.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
That is so strange! I wonder why it wouldn't work in Japan, even using a VPN to try from different countries
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I had to use an incognito tab and a UK VPN to get it to work. Must be an issue with me.
- dexterwong7984
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Jul 24, 2021
A late late reply lol
I am currently writing an essay on David’s concertino and taking reference from an article by Lindberg on Tarrodi. The interesting part is that I can get access to it on my mobile phone but as you said, it will be directed to a Japanese online fashion shop when I do it on my computer.
I am currently writing an essay on David’s concertino and taking reference from an article by Lindberg on Tarrodi. The interesting part is that I can get access to it on my mobile phone but as you said, it will be directed to a Japanese online fashion shop when I do it on my computer.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="dexterwong7984"]A late late reply lol
I am currently writing an essay on David’s concertino and taking reference from an article by Lindberg on Tarrodi. The interesting part is that I can get access to it on my mobile phone but as you said, it will be directed to a Japanese online fashion shop when I do it on my computer.[/quote]
I wouldn't reference or quote that, the same way you wouldn't normally reference CD liner booklets, those are not acceptable sources for a scientific or academic paper, and even if your essay is just for fun or an online blog, I would personally find it more fun to write things I can substantiate. Secondary sources you reference should themselves reference their sources. That particular text about the David Concertino not only doesn't provide any sources, but makes certain claims that are completely unsubstantiated (for example that Mendelssohn originally was to write the concertino but passed it on to David - I've never found a single reference to any primary source supporting that, I've only seen it in that Lindberg text and some online non-scholarly texts that don't provide sources and may well have taken the info from Lindberg. At this point this is essentially a rumour.), and sometimes demonstrably false (like that all the performance material for the original orchestration burned in Cleveland and so it HAD to be reconstructed - easily disprovable as there is a reprint of the first edition that is widely available including a scan of it on IMSLP, and surviving original copies of the first edition in German libraries).
I am currently writing an essay on David’s concertino and taking reference from an article by Lindberg on Tarrodi. The interesting part is that I can get access to it on my mobile phone but as you said, it will be directed to a Japanese online fashion shop when I do it on my computer.[/quote]
I wouldn't reference or quote that, the same way you wouldn't normally reference CD liner booklets, those are not acceptable sources for a scientific or academic paper, and even if your essay is just for fun or an online blog, I would personally find it more fun to write things I can substantiate. Secondary sources you reference should themselves reference their sources. That particular text about the David Concertino not only doesn't provide any sources, but makes certain claims that are completely unsubstantiated (for example that Mendelssohn originally was to write the concertino but passed it on to David - I've never found a single reference to any primary source supporting that, I've only seen it in that Lindberg text and some online non-scholarly texts that don't provide sources and may well have taken the info from Lindberg. At this point this is essentially a rumour.), and sometimes demonstrably false (like that all the performance material for the original orchestration burned in Cleveland and so it HAD to be reconstructed - easily disprovable as there is a reprint of the first edition that is widely available including a scan of it on IMSLP, and surviving original copies of the first edition in German libraries).
- bcschipper
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sep 23, 2018
Where did Tarrodi claim "Cleveland" and "original orchestration burned"?
At http://www.tarrodi.se/cl/ruta.asp?show=15 I can only read
"The piece received its US premiere in 1923 by Cincinati Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner, but since then the original orchestra material has been lost."
The first claim is false. It was played already in Brooklyn by F. Letsch in 1866 and later the same year by H. Braun in Chicago. This is shortly after it was published in Germany and still during David's life time. I don't know whether the Letsch performance was the US premiere.
I am particularly interested in the claim "original orchestration burned". Quite likely Alschausky might have brought a set from Leipzig when he joined the Cincinnati Symphony in 1923 and performed it with them the same year. And he might have taken it with him when he left in 1924.
Norman Pilgrim, a boy of 15 years at that time, performed the David Concertino with the Morton Symphony in 1924. He was a student of Kohlmann. Kohlmann arrived together with Alschausky at the Cincinnati Symphony (and according to the correspondence between Reiner and Alschausky was selected by Alschausky). Kohlmann moved up to Alschausky's chair when Alschausky left the Cincinnati Symphony. Anyway, for this performance of Pilgrim it was written in local newspapers at that time that there was a difficulty in procuring the music as it was damaged in a fire. So the burned David Concertino music may not be myth but they could have simply ordered a new set from Germany. But did this quasi-myth really inspire Lindberg to write a "reconstruction"? He could have ordered it from Germany as well.
Apart from unfortunately shrouding the real US history of the David Concertino, I find this quasi-myth fascinating. One should write an article about "The US History of the David Concertino".
At http://www.tarrodi.se/cl/ruta.asp?show=15 I can only read
"The piece received its US premiere in 1923 by Cincinati Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner, but since then the original orchestra material has been lost."
The first claim is false. It was played already in Brooklyn by F. Letsch in 1866 and later the same year by H. Braun in Chicago. This is shortly after it was published in Germany and still during David's life time. I don't know whether the Letsch performance was the US premiere.
I am particularly interested in the claim "original orchestration burned". Quite likely Alschausky might have brought a set from Leipzig when he joined the Cincinnati Symphony in 1923 and performed it with them the same year. And he might have taken it with him when he left in 1924.
Norman Pilgrim, a boy of 15 years at that time, performed the David Concertino with the Morton Symphony in 1924. He was a student of Kohlmann. Kohlmann arrived together with Alschausky at the Cincinnati Symphony (and according to the correspondence between Reiner and Alschausky was selected by Alschausky). Kohlmann moved up to Alschausky's chair when Alschausky left the Cincinnati Symphony. Anyway, for this performance of Pilgrim it was written in local newspapers at that time that there was a difficulty in procuring the music as it was damaged in a fire. So the burned David Concertino music may not be myth but they could have simply ordered a new set from Germany. But did this quasi-myth really inspire Lindberg to write a "reconstruction"? He could have ordered it from Germany as well.
Apart from unfortunately shrouding the real US history of the David Concertino, I find this quasi-myth fascinating. One should write an article about "The US History of the David Concertino".
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Lindberg haS said in recent interviews that he reorchestrated the material so that potential orchestras would actually want to perform the works. I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring no one tries to get a cut as a publisher, even if works are in the PD.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="bcschipper"]Where did Tarrodi claim "Cleveland" and "original orchestration burned"?
At http://www.tarrodi.se/cl/ruta.asp?show=15 I can only read
"The piece received its US premiere in 1923 by Cincinati Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner, but since then the original orchestra material has been lost."
The first claim is false. It was played already in Brooklyn by F. Letsch in 1866 and later the same year by H. Braun in Chicago. This is shortly after it was published in Germany and still during David's life time. I don't know whether the Letsch performance was the US premiere.
I am particularly interested in the claim "original orchestration burned". Quite likely Alschausky might have brought a set from Leipzig when he joined the Cincinnati Symphony in 1923 and performed it with them the same year. And he might have taken it with him when he left in 1924.
Norman Pilgrim, a boy of 15 years at that time, performed the David Concertino with the Morton Symphony in 1924. He was a student of Kohlmann. Kohlmann arrived together with Alschausky at the Cincinnati Symphony (and according to the correspondence between Reiner and Alschausky was selected by Alschausky). Kohlmann moved up to Alschausky's chair when Alschausky left the Cincinnati Symphony. Anyway, for this performance of Pilgrim it was written in local newspapers at that time that there was a difficulty in procuring the music as it was damaged in a fire. So the burned David Concertino music may not be myth but they could have simply ordered a new set from Germany. But did this quasi-myth really inspire Lindberg to write a "reconstruction"? He could have ordered it from Germany as well.
Apart from unfortunately shrouding the real US history of the David Concertino, I find this quasi-myth fascinating. One should write an article about "The US History of the David Concertino".[/quote]
You're right, it appears not to be in that text. I though it was, but it must have been in an interview or CD liner note. (I'm also ashamed to admit that I consistently confuse Cincinnati and Cleveland :oops: ). But regardless, the point is, the essence of the claim that the orchestra material was lost is false – that particular copy might be lost but there were and still are other copies around, and that original orchestration was still in use right before Lindberg made his own. It certainly was available when the first (?) recording of the piece was made in 1981.
At http://www.tarrodi.se/cl/ruta.asp?show=15 I can only read
"The piece received its US premiere in 1923 by Cincinati Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner, but since then the original orchestra material has been lost."
The first claim is false. It was played already in Brooklyn by F. Letsch in 1866 and later the same year by H. Braun in Chicago. This is shortly after it was published in Germany and still during David's life time. I don't know whether the Letsch performance was the US premiere.
I am particularly interested in the claim "original orchestration burned". Quite likely Alschausky might have brought a set from Leipzig when he joined the Cincinnati Symphony in 1923 and performed it with them the same year. And he might have taken it with him when he left in 1924.
Norman Pilgrim, a boy of 15 years at that time, performed the David Concertino with the Morton Symphony in 1924. He was a student of Kohlmann. Kohlmann arrived together with Alschausky at the Cincinnati Symphony (and according to the correspondence between Reiner and Alschausky was selected by Alschausky). Kohlmann moved up to Alschausky's chair when Alschausky left the Cincinnati Symphony. Anyway, for this performance of Pilgrim it was written in local newspapers at that time that there was a difficulty in procuring the music as it was damaged in a fire. So the burned David Concertino music may not be myth but they could have simply ordered a new set from Germany. But did this quasi-myth really inspire Lindberg to write a "reconstruction"? He could have ordered it from Germany as well.
Apart from unfortunately shrouding the real US history of the David Concertino, I find this quasi-myth fascinating. One should write an article about "The US History of the David Concertino".[/quote]
You're right, it appears not to be in that text. I though it was, but it must have been in an interview or CD liner note. (I'm also ashamed to admit that I consistently confuse Cincinnati and Cleveland :oops: ). But regardless, the point is, the essence of the claim that the orchestra material was lost is false – that particular copy might be lost but there were and still are other copies around, and that original orchestration was still in use right before Lindberg made his own. It certainly was available when the first (?) recording of the piece was made in 1981.
- HowardW
- Posts: 76
- Joined: May 11, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Lindberg haS said in recent interviews that he reorchestrated the material so that potential orchestras would actually want to perform the works. I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring no one tries to get a cut as a publisher, even if works are in the PD.[/quote]
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="HowardW"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="155581" time="1629618279" user_id="3642">
Lindberg haS said in recent interviews that he reorchestrated the material so that potential orchestras would actually want to perform the works. I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring no one tries to get a cut as a publisher, even if works are in the PD.[/quote]
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H
</QUOTE>
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.
Lindberg haS said in recent interviews that he reorchestrated the material so that potential orchestras would actually want to perform the works. I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring no one tries to get a cut as a publisher, even if works are in the PD.[/quote]
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H
</QUOTE>
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="HowardW" post_id="155594" time="1629639042" user_id="3268">
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H[/quote]
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.
</QUOTE>
Except the edition that was available in the 80s (or at least available enough for others to access and use) was the public domain edition, not a modern edition with royalties on it.
No need to fly anywhere when you know what you're looking for. Scans exist now, and microfilms existed in the 80s.
Your second sentence is not quite right. Closer to the mark would be:
"I'm guessing a lot of it also has to do with ensuring that someone gets a cut as publisher, even if the work is in the PD."
H[/quote]
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.
</QUOTE>
Except the edition that was available in the 80s (or at least available enough for others to access and use) was the public domain edition, not a modern edition with royalties on it.
No need to fly anywhere when you know what you're looking for. Scans exist now, and microfilms existed in the 80s.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="155602" time="1629646898" user_id="3642">
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.[/quote]
Except the edition that was available in the 80s (or at least available enough for others to access and use) was the public domain edition, not a modern edition with royalties on it.
No need to fly anywhere when you know what you're looking for. Scans exist now, and microfilms existed in the 80s.
</QUOTE>
I get that, and obviously it existed somewhere, but was it really readily accessible like that? Or was it a Kalmus edition with a big old copyright notice on it that was "public domain"? I've tried to get my hands on photocopies and microfilms of PD materials as late as 2017, and the libraries wanted me to sign a contract that said I wouldn't copy, publish, record, or arrange the public domain work they wanted to charge me to send a PDF of. I think you and I even argued about it at the time, because my plan was to just dump it on IMSLP and you were horrified that I was trying to cut the library and their damn monopoly out of the equation. I can't imagine what it was like in the 80s. I'm not an academic -- maybe they go easy on you if you have a pocket protector and "bona fide scholar" credentials. They probably saw my jeans an my "I pooped today" t-shirt and sent me packing. :idk:
Well, no. If you let the orchestra choose the edition that is really available, and it's 1980, someone else will get a cut of your recording royalties. We may have ready access to PD editions of the David today but the story was probably different in a time without the internet, where you would have to fly to some library just to be allowed to look at the plates or the original scores. This is STILL the case with the classical alto trombone concertos.[/quote]
Except the edition that was available in the 80s (or at least available enough for others to access and use) was the public domain edition, not a modern edition with royalties on it.
No need to fly anywhere when you know what you're looking for. Scans exist now, and microfilms existed in the 80s.
</QUOTE>
I get that, and obviously it existed somewhere, but was it really readily accessible like that? Or was it a Kalmus edition with a big old copyright notice on it that was "public domain"? I've tried to get my hands on photocopies and microfilms of PD materials as late as 2017, and the libraries wanted me to sign a contract that said I wouldn't copy, publish, record, or arrange the public domain work they wanted to charge me to send a PDF of. I think you and I even argued about it at the time, because my plan was to just dump it on IMSLP and you were horrified that I was trying to cut the library and their damn monopoly out of the equation. I can't imagine what it was like in the 80s. I'm not an academic -- maybe they go easy on you if you have a pocket protector and "bona fide scholar" credentials. They probably saw my jeans an my "I pooped today" t-shirt and sent me packing. :idk:
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]
I get that, and obviously it existed somewhere, but was it really readily accessible like that? Or was it a Kalmus edition with a big old copyright notice on it that was "public domain"? I've tried to get my hands on photocopies and microfilms of PD materials as late as 2017, and the libraries wanted me to sign a contract that said I wouldn't copy, publish, record, or arrange the public domain work they wanted to charge me to send a PDF of. I can't imagine what it was like in the 80s. I'm not an academic -- maybe they go easy on you if you have a pocket protector and "bona fide scholar" credentials.[/quote]
I'm not sure if the Kalmus reprint existed then, but if not it became available fairly soon after. There is no copyright notice on the Kalmus edition from what I can recall when I saw a copy of it (they usually don't claim copyright except in the case of corrected and critical editions, which this isn't) but even if there is, it's obviously not valid and not enforceable as it's just a reprint.
In terms of the libraries asking money and having you sign that form, yes that's the usual. You can request permission to publish or perform or record, which may or may not be granted (it often is in exchange for getting a free copy of the released publication or CD) and may or may not make the quoted price increase.
I get that, and obviously it existed somewhere, but was it really readily accessible like that? Or was it a Kalmus edition with a big old copyright notice on it that was "public domain"? I've tried to get my hands on photocopies and microfilms of PD materials as late as 2017, and the libraries wanted me to sign a contract that said I wouldn't copy, publish, record, or arrange the public domain work they wanted to charge me to send a PDF of. I can't imagine what it was like in the 80s. I'm not an academic -- maybe they go easy on you if you have a pocket protector and "bona fide scholar" credentials.[/quote]
I'm not sure if the Kalmus reprint existed then, but if not it became available fairly soon after. There is no copyright notice on the Kalmus edition from what I can recall when I saw a copy of it (they usually don't claim copyright except in the case of corrected and critical editions, which this isn't) but even if there is, it's obviously not valid and not enforceable as it's just a reprint.
In terms of the libraries asking money and having you sign that form, yes that's the usual. You can request permission to publish or perform or record, which may or may not be granted (it often is in exchange for getting a free copy of the released publication or CD) and may or may not make the quoted price increase.