Axial/Thayer on a Bach 36?

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2020-10-25 1:31 p.m.

Interested in getting this modification done. I’ve only ever seen one or two Bach 36s modded with a Thayer.

I use the F a lot for improv and recording low notes, prefer my horns with a trigger. Has anyone had experience with this setup, or similar .525 with Axial? Thanks for your insight!

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2020-10-25 2:05 p.m.

You may want to consider The Instrument Innovations Rotary and /or Thayer.

I have the rotary on my 42BO and love it.

I`ve seen a 36 with a I I rotary..

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-10-25 2:08 p.m.

The need for a modified valve on a 36 is a lot less than a 42. They use the same rotor, so it's much more open on the 36.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2020-10-25 2:39 p.m.

At that point you need to ask yourself why you're playing a Bach 36 and not a Bach 42? Could this possibly be a mouthpiece issue and not a valve issue?

As others have said check out the Rotax or Instrument Innovations valve if you want a improved rotor.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-10-25 2:49 p.m.

You'd also need a wide slide with any kind of larger valve. I have a 36K and had to have a Shires crook installed in order to play it comfortably.

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2020-10-25 2:58 p.m.

Cheapest solution is to open up the valve ports. The stock valve ports on a 36/42 are machined straight through. This has the effect of a "squashed tube." Dana Hofer of Chicago will open the ports up if you mail him your valve cores.

Rusty · by **Rusty** » 2020-10-26 4:49 a.m.

I had a custom Edwards .525 with a Thayer and detachable straight neckpipe. Wide slide. I played the horn for a number of years and it was a great horn, but I came to the realisation that a Thayer was just the wrong valve for it and a standard rotor or similar would’ve been a better decision. It probably felt best as a straight horn. I’d go for an Instrument Innovations valve now I think.

chromebone · by **chromebone** » 2020-10-26 7:27 a.m.

John Swallow played a 36 with a Thayer and he sounded great on it. It’s not only doable on a 36, it works really well.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-10-26 8:59 a.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]You'd also need a wide slide with any kind of larger valve. I have a 36K and had to have a Shires crook installed in order to play it comfortably.[/quote]

I remember someone critiquing yamaha for not putting a Thayer on their alto and thought the same thing lol.

WilliamLang · by **WilliamLang** » 2020-10-26 10:11 a.m.

i had a .525 shires with a thayer that played really well. worked awesome on radio city and other commercial gigs.

pedrombon · by **pedrombon** » 2020-10-26 11:32 a.m.

I've played an axial valve with 525" slide and 8" bell and I love how that setup sounds.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-10-26 11:40 a.m.

[quote="chromebone"]John Swallow played a 36 with a Thayer and he sounded great on it. It’s not only doable on a 36, it works really well.[/quote]

Thanks for posting this. I studied with John, and never saw him with this instrument. He always had a normal 36b rotary when I knew him in the mid 80s.

chromebone · by **chromebone** » 2020-10-26 11:48 a.m.

Thanks for posting this. I studied with John, and never saw him with this instrument. He always had a normal 36b rotary when I knew him in the mid 80s.

I studied with him in the 90's and the horn in the picture is what he was playing. I think it's the same 36 you saw him with, but he had it converted. The work was done by Chuck McAlexander.

I think O.E.Thayer may have made a smaller valve for medium bore horns back then.

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2020-10-26 2:02 p.m.

That picture also helped me get this idea! I studied with Tom Hutchinson who was a student of John Swallow.

I have an 8H with a Thayer. It sounds wonderful. The Thayer is my favorite valve I’ve ever played on (I’ve previously owned horns w/ Rotor, Rotax, Meinlschmidt, Hagmann, Voight).

However, I am trying to get down to one small straight tenor and one all around F tenor. While I have enjoyed having different instruments for recording work, different sounds and “paintbrushes”, I have found during this pandemic that switching back and forth on many tenors is bad for my playing technique and sound concept overall. Trying to focus things.

I don’t do traditional orchestral or jazz work anymore, so am not looking for typical equipment. I find myself using a bass trombone more than a large bore for the recording/soundtrack work I do. .525/F covers all the other tenor needs (and blends really well with Bari Sax all the way to lead trumpet). I will keep a small horn for some solo/lead lines, ballad type playing, and Bill Watrous sound concept I have previously ignored but have been digging into lately to find another approach to playing trombone.

As a complete instrument, the Bach 36 is my favorite. I can play everything on the current rotor but want something that has less resistance and requires less effort to dial in. I may send mine to Sweeney Brass and add an Instrument Innovations Axial. Will also ask about the II rotor. While I know it will not play as “open” as an Axial, it may provide me with the fluidity in the trigger register I desire.

Appreciate everyone’s insight!

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Axial/Thayer on a Bach 36?