Putting high range in context
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Yes, yet another thread asking for high range advice.
My problem isn't in reaching high notes - even on bass trombone (Holton 180 with Doug Yeo mp) I can hit F5 reliably, and sometimes as high as Bb5. It does not sound good, but the notes are there. However, whether playing tenor or bass, on everything from about Ab4 up (or even Gb4 on an off day) my tone is thin and pinched-sounding, attacks aren't as crisp and clean as they should be. So that's roughly an octave of high range that I can reach, but can't make work in proper musical context. Does anyone else have a similar problem? What sort of practice can help move the "extreme" high range to a place where the notes aren't just reachable, but are comfortable and usable?
My problem isn't in reaching high notes - even on bass trombone (Holton 180 with Doug Yeo mp) I can hit F5 reliably, and sometimes as high as Bb5. It does not sound good, but the notes are there. However, whether playing tenor or bass, on everything from about Ab4 up (or even Gb4 on an off day) my tone is thin and pinched-sounding, attacks aren't as crisp and clean as they should be. So that's roughly an octave of high range that I can reach, but can't make work in proper musical context. Does anyone else have a similar problem? What sort of practice can help move the "extreme" high range to a place where the notes aren't just reachable, but are comfortable and usable?
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Have a lesson with Doug Elliott
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Yes, I can help, but... Those notes do not resonate on a bass trombone the way they do on a small tenor. You're not getting any help from the horn. The mouthpiece is also part of that equation. Some mouthpieces, and mpc/horn combinations, resonate better than others.
The mechanical stuff you, in the way you play, is a very big part of it. That's where I can help if I can see and hear what you're doing.
The mechanical stuff you, in the way you play, is a very big part of it. That's where I can help if I can see and hear what you're doing.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Yes, I can help, but... Those notes do not resonate on a bass trombone the way they do on a small tenor. You're not getting any help from the horn. The mouthpiece is also part of that equation. Some mouthpieces, and mpc/horn combinations, resonate better than others.
The mechanical stuff you do, in the way you play, is a very big part of it. That's where I can help if I can see and hear what you're doing.
The mechanical stuff you do, in the way you play, is a very big part of it. That's where I can help if I can see and hear what you're doing.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Right, I'm not expecting to be able to do every Rochut etude an octave up on bass - would be satisfied to play excerpts like Hary Janos without (often) fracking the B4, and to keep the G4s in Haydn's Creation relaxed and fluid.
That said, my high range is not appreciably better on small tenor than on bass, and tenor does occasionally want a good D5. I would assume that's to do with how I'm playing, and with having much more accumulated practice time on the bigger equipment.
That said, my high range is not appreciably better on small tenor than on bass, and tenor does occasionally want a good D5. I would assume that's to do with how I'm playing, and with having much more accumulated practice time on the bigger equipment.
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
i have some thoughts on this as well. if you have 20 minutes or so someday we can chat about it - feel free to pm
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
It's got to do almost entirely with your tongue position and the amount of pressure between your chops and the mouthpiece.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Once you get the chop thing figured out you still have some work to do. Having the right chop set alone won't give you a solid high range. When I was working out my upper range, I did two things that really solidified it: First, interval studies - there are many, but I used Arbans. Second, just play a lot of songs that take you up there. Between the two of those, you get the muscle memory for what a specific note feels like so you can always pick a high B natural out of thin air, and you know how to play the notes in the context of other notes - a melody. The interval studies do a lot more for you other than range, also flexibility, strength, ear training, intonation, etc. For the melodies, I got a Sinatra song book, and read the melody in treble clef.
- biggiesmalls
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Jan 22, 2019
I found this short video by Jonathan Randazzo to be very helpful:
<YOUTUBE id="LFDLf1ZDIpA">https://youtu.be/LFDLf1ZDIpA</YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE id="LFDLf1ZDIpA">https://youtu.be/LFDLf1ZDIpA</YOUTUBE>
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Cool. He's basically talking muscular independence for breathing. Someone here ridiculed that idea a few days ago. Nice to have a guy with cred say it.