Courtois 131 or Shires Q35 Alto Trombone?

Posaunerd · 2020-11-27 9:05 p.m.

Hello! :hi:

I'm planning on buying an alto trombone, and thought I had decided on the Sires Q35 when one of my local music stores informed me of a greatly discounted Courtois AC131R10 they have--it's a floor model they've had for 8 years. So, now I'm back to indecision.

Any input that might help me decide? I'm not a professional player, if that makes a difference. And I favor a 'true alto' sound as opposed to a 'small tenor' sound. I've read through previous alto trombone posts, but figured this was specific enough to be worth throwing out there. TIA!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-11-27 10:20 p.m.

Have you tried the Courtois? Have you tried the Shires? Either one is probably OK. Find the one that fits your sound concept. If it's your first alto, buy the lower priced one in case you decide you don't like playing alto (yes, some of us don't play alto trombone, and we can play the same range on a small tenor).

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-27 10:26 p.m.

Thanks. I got to play a borrowed alto (a Yamaha, unsure of model) this past semester and really loved it—hence the search for my own. (Edit: I loved playing alto in general; I don't feel the need to get the exact same instrument. It's just what was available to me.)

I have not played either the Shires or the Courtois. I do have the opportunity to to go try out the Courtois, but not the Shires. (The Shires is less expensive.)

tombone21 · by **tombone21** » 2020-11-28 12:17 a.m.

I've played both the Courtois 131 and a Shires custom alto with tuning in the slide for at least a year each. I vastly preferred the Courtois, specifically for its 'true alto' sound and its ability to blend well with larger horns. The only negatives I can remember about it were the squirrely high F partial and shorter 7th position. It was definitely there, I just had to be mindful when I went out that far. The TIS Shires was inflexible and sounded like a very shrill tenor to pretty much everyone that heard or played it. I believe it was an A7YLW bell and standard yellow brass/nickel crook dual bore slide.

That said, I've heard great things about the bell-tuning Shires altos, and I haven't taken issue with any Q-series instrument I've tried, so I wouldn't totally write them off. Honestly, the Q-Series instruments feel better in hand than a lot of American or British boutique makers I've tried. Definitely worth trying and seeing for yourself. If you'd be buying the Q35 new, it should come with a trial or return policy. And also, if that Courtois has been sitting in the local music store for the last 8 years, there might be a reason for it. But definitely try the Courtois, and if you like it, haggle with the music store and offer to take it off their hands. If it's been kicking around for 8 years it definitely has a couple of scratches and dings and the slide probably isn't so hot either. They'll want it gone just as much as you want to take it home.

Vegasbound · by **Vegasbound** » 2020-11-28 5:11 a.m.

Why not buy a Yamaha? You played one and liked it and they Yamaha altos are good

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-11-28 5:33 a.m.

Speaking of feeling "better in hand", I have no idea how any non-child human being can hold a Courtois large bore tenor in their hands with such short cork barrels, let alone their alto. Van Rijen is a magician! His playing is great, also.

Edit, nvm, here is the magic. OUCH!!

<ATTACHMENT filename="Screenshot_20201128-194025.png" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~Screenshot_20201128-194025.png</ATTACHMENT>

The longer I look, the less sense that ring finger makes...

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2020-11-28 8:18 a.m.

Try. Choose. Buy.

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-28 9:47 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Speaking of feeling "better in hand", I have no idea how any non-child human being can hold a Courtois large bore tenor in their hands with such short cork barrels, let alone their alto. Van Rijen is a magician! His playing is great, also.

Edit, nvm, here is the magic. OUCH!!

Screenshot_20201128-194025.png

The longer I look, the less sense that ring finger makes...[/quote]

Oof! That does look painful! <EMOJI seq="1f62c" tseq="1f62c">😬</EMOJI>

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-28 9:49 a.m.

[quote="Vegasbound"]Why not buy a Yamaha? You played one and liked it and they Yamaha altos are good[/quote]

The two options I’m considering cost less. ;)

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-28 9:51 a.m.

[quote="tombone21"]I've played both the Courtois 131 and a Shires custom alto with tuning in the slide for at least a year each. I vastly preferred the Courtois, specifically for its 'true alto' sound and its ability to blend well with larger horns. The only negatives I can remember about it were the squirrely high F partial and shorter 7th position. It was definitely there, I just had to be mindful when I went out that far. The TIS Shires was inflexible and sounded like a very shrill tenor to pretty much everyone that heard or played it. I believe it was an A7YLW bell and standard yellow brass/nickel crook dual bore slide.

That said, I've heard great things about the bell-tuning Shires altos, and I haven't taken issue with any Q-series instrument I've tried, so I wouldn't totally write them off. Honestly, the Q-Series instruments feel better in hand than a lot of American or British boutique makers I've tried. Definitely worth trying and seeing for yourself. If you'd be buying the Q35 new, it should come with a trial or return policy. And also, if that Courtois has been sitting in the local music store for the last 8 years, there might be a reason for it. But definitely try the Courtois, and if you like it, haggle with the music store and offer to take it off their hands. If it's been kicking around for 8 years it definitely has a couple of scratches and dings and the slide probably isn't so hot either. They'll want it gone just as much as you want to take it home.[/quote]

This is very helpful. Thank you.

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-28 10:25 a.m.

Update: I just ordered the Shires Q35

I had planned on driving up to the music store that has the Courtois (about an hour away from my home) today, but they don't open again until Monday. With the start of school again next week (both for me and my kids), and without a clear "you should definitely get horn x and not horn y" response, I decided to go for the easier and less expensive route of ordering from the comfort of my home. :)

Thank you to everyone who replied. I can hardly wait for my alto to arrive!

LeTromboniste · by **LeTromboniste** » 2020-11-28 10:40 a.m.

Haven't tried the Shires so can't compare. I'm a big fan of the Yamaha altos, but I owned a Courtois 131 for a few years and it was one of the best horns I've ever played. My approach is also to have a "true" alto sound, brighter but full, and it works really well for that. Also seems to like small mouthpieces. Do try it first, as has been pointed out there might be a reason it's stayed in demo for 8 years. But it could be as silly as not being in huge demand in that area or having lacquer damage. The lacquer on Courtois instrument is really thin a often starts peeling off fast. That and they're really not to everyone's liking in North America. It could be had, but it also would not be the first time I hear or see Courtois demo instruments not selling for years despite being good horns. Mine was also in the store for 2-3 years when I got it and had some cosmetic wear that allowed me to get a discount.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-11-29 3:25 p.m.

Just out of curiosity, how much is the Shires? I couldn’t find a price in their web site.

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-29 4:24 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Just out of curiosity, how much is the Shires? I couldn’t find a price in their web site.[/quote]

The list price is $2115, and I think there’s currently a $100 off promotion going on. (Eric Hand from Brass Gurus is running a special promotion on his in-stock horns for this weekend, though, so I ended up paying less than that.)

Posaunerd · by **Posaunerd** » 2020-11-29 4:28 p.m.

[quote="LeTromboniste"]Haven't tried the Shires so can't compare. I'm a big fan of the Yamaha altos, but I owned a Courtois 131 for a few years and it was one of the best horns I've ever played. My approach is also to have a "true" alto sound, brighter but full, and it works really well for that. Also seems to like small mouthpieces. Do try it first, as has been pointed out there might be a reason it's stayed in demo for 8 years. But it could be as silly as not being in huge demand in that area or having lacquer damage. The lacquer on Courtois instrument is really thin a often starts peeling off fast. That and they're really not to everyone's liking in North America. It could be had, but it also would not be the first time I hear or see Courtois demo instruments not selling for years despite being good horns. Mine was also in the store for 2-3 years when I got it and had some cosmetic wear that allowed me to get a discount.[/quote]

Thank you! I had already ordered the Shires by the time I saw this, but if for whatever reason I end up disliking it I’ll certainly go check out the Courtois. (The shop told me they bought it for a short-term rental instrument for area high schools, but nobody has ever rented or bought it.)

By the way, I love that you play the sackbut! never have, but really want to one day (and hopefully a serpent as well!)

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Courtois 131 or Shires Q35 Alto Trombone?