Trombone Stand

jcemu07 · 2020-12-08 10:09 p.m.

Looking to buy a used UMI Precision Trombone Stand. Ideally the one with the feet bend at the ends like in the image. I am aware of the one on Amazon but read on other posts here that the stand received was not the same as in the picture.

<ATTACHMENT filename="51zOzd5AM9L._AC_SY679_.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~51zOzd5AM9L._AC_SY679_.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2020-12-09 7:18 a.m.

Not too hard to find.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/K-M-FBA_14990-00 ... 8465&psc=1">https://www.amazon.com/K-M-FBA_14990-000-55-Precision-Trombone/dp/B0002Y2UFC/ref=asc_df_B0002Y2UFC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241911294610&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13121987142872517067&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010777&hvtargid=pla-584154148465&psc=1</LINK_TEXT>

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2020-12-09 10:36 a.m.

I did come across the Amazon posting but read on this forum where others ordered from Amazon but the item received was not what the Amazon picture shows.

SteveFoote · by **SteveFoote** » 2020-12-09 11:23 a.m.

Hickey's is selling one made by K&M.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2020-12-09 2:28 p.m.

Thanks. I'm trying to find a bass trombone stand. I tried out the UMI one by K&M and it worked well but... hoping to find something that would fit in my bell that isn't the high cost carbon stand from Woodwind.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-12-09 2:50 p.m.

You can replace the dome in most trombone stands with a toilet plunger if you drill out the hole for the stick. I also put a metal plate resting on the collar under the dome to add some strength to the plunger. Worked great for my bass trombone, even if it did look a bit odd.

Incidentally, I did it with a Hamilton.

jthomas105 · by **jthomas105** » 2020-12-09 8:54 p.m.

Look at this...

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.musicarts.com/mainline-trom ... ain0027969">https://www.musicarts.com/mainline-trombone-stand-main0027969</LINK_TEXT>

I bought one like this on Amazon 2 years ago. Fits a bass trombone bell really well. The part that supports the bell is more robust and supports more bell than any other I have seen, the rubber part on top is also bigger and fits the larger throat of a bass bell better. I have a Holton TR181 and it seems much more secure than on this kind below that I also have.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Trombon ... 085&sr=8-4">https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Trombone-Stand-Black-Finish/dp/B003UT1Q1A/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=trombone+stand&qid=1607565085&sr=8-4</LINK_TEXT>

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-12-09 9:07 p.m.

The Mainline stand you showed is very similar to a Jupiter stand I picked up in Australia (1990).

The Jupiter stand came apart when the cane tip came off and the cone disappeared.

I repaired it like the Hamilton I mentioned above. I still use it.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-10 11:32 a.m.

I understand cost can be a factor, but, would you play the cheapest mutes available regardless of sound? Would you use a gunney sack to transport your bass trombone in, or perhaps a cardboard box? Of course not. So save your money till you can afford the best equipment. The K&M Trombone stands are excellent, but if you want something that stores in the bell of your horn that is a superior piece of work, go for the stand that The Horn Guys have from Woodwind Designs. It's fantastic. I have the tenor trombone, bass trombone, and euphonium versions. Yep I spent some bucks, but my axes are worth it.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2020-12-10 4:52 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]I understand cost can be a factor, but, would you play the cheapest mutes available regardless of sound? Would you use a gunney sack to transport your bass trombone in, or perhaps a cardboard box? Of course not. So save your money till you can afford the best equipment. The K&M Trombone stands are excellent, but if you want something that stores in the bell of your horn that is a superior piece of work, go for the stand that The Horn Guys have from Woodwind Designs. It's fantastic. I have the tenor trombone, bass trombone, and euphonium versions. Yep I spent some bucks, but my axes are worth it.[/quote]

All good points. After looking at K&M stands and messaging the Woodwind Designs guy I am definitely leaning toward the carbon stand. Could you post a picture of your bass trombone on the stand?

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-13 11:53 a.m.

I'll post a picture this week.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-13 5:46 p.m.

<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG_3457.jpg" index="2">~~[attachment=2]~~IMG_3457.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG_3458.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~IMG_3458.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-13 5:50 p.m.

<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG_3460.jpg" index="2">~~[attachment=2]~~IMG_3460.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-13 5:59 p.m.

<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG_3464.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~IMG_3464.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

So there you have it! Best bass trombone stand I have ever owned. That is my XO 1242RL bass trombone sitting on it. It's not a light horn. Dual bore .561/.571 with gold brass bell and standard XO rotors.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2020-12-14 1:55 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]IMG_3464.jpg

So there you have it! Best bass trombone stand I have ever owned. That is my XO 1242RL bass trombone sitting on it. It's not a light horn. Dual bore .561/.571 with gold brass bell and standard XO rotors.[/quote]

Thanks very much for posting the pics. I am definitely going with the Woodwind Design!

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2020-12-15 1:51 p.m.

You won't regret it!

jcemu07 · 2021-03-12 10:37 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]You won't regret it![/quote]

Woodwind Design bass bone stand arrived. Took a bit to figure out and had to reattach the top tube that I popped off but loving it!

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2021-03-13 4:00 a.m.

Interesting Marketing for this stand... its MUCH cheaper in the States than it is in Germany where its made!... Doug

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-14 3:09 p.m.

I did the same thing when I got mine...put the top back on after figuring out how it works! And to Doug H - I think it's made in the Netherlands - but probably cheaper here in the US since the Horn Guys shop orders 8 to 10 at a time.

I also suggest you can drape a Crown Royal Whiskey bag (large) over it and that helps suck up water drips, etc. I'm using the WWD stand made for tenor bone, made for bass bone, and made for euphonium on my horns - with Crown Royal Bags on each. Next - the tuba stand if he gets one designed. These are the best stands I have ever owned!!

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2021-03-14 3:23 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]I did the same thing when I got mine...put the top back on after figuring out how it works! And to Doug H - I think it's made in the Netherlands - but probably cheaper here in the US since the Horn Guys shop orders 8 to 10 at a time.

I also suggest you can drape a Crown Royal Whiskey bag (large) over it and that helps suck up water drips, etc. I'm using the WWD stand made for tenor bone, made for bass bone, and made for euphonium on my horns - with Crown Royal Bags on each. Next - the tuba stand if he gets one designed. These are the best stands I have ever owned!![/quote]

ssking2b - is it 3 tubes you can adjust for height or just 2 tubes? I actually got a blister on my finger trying to get the rubber rings moved down to reattach the tube. The video he makes it look so easy to move lol. I'll definitely look to get a Crown Royal bag.

Doug H I got mine from Dillions Music.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-15 5:26 p.m.

Wow - I didn't know Dillon's had them. When I got mine only the Horn Guys had it. My bass bone stand has 3 tubes, my tenor stand has 2 tubes. The rubber rings are tight as a **** you know what. That's pinch the split he cuts in the ends of the tubes tight to hold everything up by friction.

Here's a suggestion...I have 3 bass bones but only one I carry these days and use this stand on...so...I got the stand set up and adjusted to the heights I wanted on the main tubes and the bell supports for the horn carry (the XO) (keeping the end of the slide very low - about a finger width from touching the floor) then I took a file and carefully scratched the tubes to mark how far to pull them, and marked the height placement of the rings to adjust the bell supports. Now when I take it out of the bell I can pull it all out tho the right lengths, and adjust the bell holders to the right height with out even putting the horn together and setting it on the stand. When done I assemble my horn and it fits every time! I suppose if I use a different horn I could make additional scratch marks, and would have to remember which mark went with which marks - but that's no big deal. Did the same to my tenor stand. Makes set up really easy. The euphonium stand adjusts a little differently.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2021-03-15 6:41 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]Wow - I didn't know Dillon's had them. When I got mine only the Horn Guys had it. My bass bone stand has 3 tubes, my tenor stand has 2 tubes. The rubber rings are tight as a **** you know what. That's pinch the split he cuts in the ends of the tubes tight to hold everything up by friction.

Here's a suggestion...I have 3 bass bones but only one I carry these days and use this stand on...so...I got the stand set up and adjusted to the heights I wanted on the main tubes and the bell supports for the horn carry (the XO) (keeping the end of the slide very low - about a finger width from touching the floor) then I took a file and carefully scratched the tubes to mark how far to pull them, and marked the height placement of the rings to adjust the bell supports. Now when I take it out of the bell I can pull it all out tho the right lengths, and adjust the bell holders to the right height with out even putting the horn together and setting it on the stand. When done I assemble my horn and it fits every time! I suppose if I use a different horn I could make additional scratch marks, and would have to remember which mark went with which marks - but that's no big deal. Did the same to my tenor stand. Makes set up really easy. The euphonium stand adjusts a little differently.[/quote]

Yea I burst a blood vessel in my one finger trying to get the rings off. Good idea about putting a notch on the tubes so you know what height to put them at. I had to ask Gijs which tube moved because in videos I see people pull from the tube with the block. So initially I was doing that. I might try a bit of painters tape to mark where to set the height on the tubes. Btw I used an old black dress sock to drape over the top.

aboumaia · 2021-03-16 9:10 a.m.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-17 11:07 a.m.

Interesting idea with the plunger and mic stand!

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-17 11:08 a.m.

And putting an old sock on the horn stand works well, too. I just like to have something on a horn stand to absorb a bit of the condensation inside the bell

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-03-17 12:02 p.m.

The Hamilton "Bone Sock" is a very good accessory:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-So ... B003VYBD4E">https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-Sock-Trombone-Stands/dp/B003VYBD4E</LINK_TEXT>

Attractive. (Looks more professional than an old black sock.) Soft. Absorbent. I use one on each of my trombone stands. I reserve my Crown Royal bag to drape over my trombone bell as a sort of bell mask / semi-mute.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2021-03-17 12:11 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]The Hamilton "Bone Sock" is a very good accessory:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-So ... B003VYBD4E">https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-Sock-Trombone-Stands/dp/B003VYBD4E</LINK_TEXT>

Attractive. (Looks more professional than an old black sock.) Soft. Absorbent. I use one on each of my trombone stands. I reserve my Crown Royal bag to drape over my trombone bell as a sort of bell mask / semi-mute.[/quote]

I use these too. They dry out well and look better than an old sock/crown royal bag from an audience standpoint. They also are fitted to the stand better. I don't think they would fit as well on the Woodwind Design stand that some have endorsed in previous posts here.

Jim Scott

jcemu07 · 2021-03-17 12:31 p.m.

[quote="CalgaryTbone"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="143688" time="1615996920" user_id="158">
The Hamilton "Bone Sock" is a very good accessory:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-So ... B003VYBD4E">https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bone-Sock-Trombone-Stands/dp/B003VYBD4E</LINK_TEXT>

Attractive. (Looks more professional than an old black sock.) Soft. Absorbent. I use one on each of my trombone stands. I reserve my Crown Royal bag to drape over my trombone bell as a sort of bell mask / semi-mute.[/quote]

I use these too. They dry out well and look better than an old sock/crown royal bag from an audience standpoint. They also are fitted to the stand better. I don't think they would fit as well on the Woodwind Design stand that some have endorsed in previous posts here.

Jim Scott
</QUOTE>

I thought about getting the Hamilton bone sock but wasn't sure if it would fit on the WWD stand hence using the sock. Can anyone confirm?

aboumaia · 2021-03-17 12:47 p.m.

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-03-17 6:06 p.m.

[quote="jcemu07"]<QUOTE author="CalgaryTbone" post_id="143690" time="1615997478" user_id="3262">

I use these too. They dry out well and look better than an old sock/crown royal bag from an audience standpoint. They also are fitted to the stand better. I don't think they would fit as well on the Woodwind Design stand that some have endorsed in previous posts here.

Jim Scott[/quote]

I thought about getting the Hamilton bone sock but wasn't sure if it would fit on the WWD stand hence using the sock. Can anyone confirm?
</QUOTE>

I don't have the bass version of the WWD stand to check, but the tenor version just arrived in the mail today, and I just so happen to have Hamilton bone socks to test with. If the bass version has a larger support ring than the tenor, then that may or may not present a fit challenge, but the diameter of the top tube fits in the bone sock pocket just fine.

Here's the K&M and the WWD stand, without socks:
<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG-3672.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~IMG-3672.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

And this is what they look like with the Hamilton bone sock on:
<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG-3671.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~IMG-3671.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-03-17 6:09 p.m.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't use a sock on any of my stands. They still work without it!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-17 6:11 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't use a sock on any of my stands. They still work without it![/quote]

Sure they do, but if you leave the instrument on the stand all the time and don't let it cool down after playing some moisture collects on the dome and creates a ring inside the bell. If you never leave the instrument on the stand right after playing or if you mop it out before leaving it there you will never need the sock.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-03-17 6:16 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="143736" time="1616018967" user_id="3131">
Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't use a sock on any of my stands. They still work without it![/quote]

Sure they do, but if you leave the instrument on the stand all the time and don't let it cool down after playing some moisture collects on the dome and creates a ring inside the bell. If you never leave the instrument on the stand right after playing or if you mop it out before leaving it there you will never need the sock.
</QUOTE>

None of the stands I use have a simple "cup" like the old Hamiltons, they have ways for the water to get out in some way.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2021-03-17 6:22 p.m.

[quote="muschem"]<QUOTE author="jcemu07" post_id="143691" time="1615998696" user_id="10805">

I thought about getting the Hamilton bone sock but wasn't sure if it would fit on the WWD stand hence using the sock. Can anyone confirm?[/quote]

I don't have the bass version of the WWD stand to check, but the tenor version just arrived in the mail today, and I just so happen to have Hamilton bone socks to test with. If the bass version has a larger support ring than the tenor, then that may or may not present a fit challenge, but the diameter of the top tube fits in the bone sock pocket just fine.

Here's the K&M and the WWD stand, without socks:

IMG-3672.jpg

And this is what they look like with the Hamilton bone sock on:

IMG-3671.jpg
</QUOTE>

Thanks for the pictures. This is very helpful. I sent a message to Gijs with the picture you have of the Hamilton bone sock on the tenor WWD stand. I do think the bass bone stand has a bigger supporting disc than the tenor stand. I think Hickey's Music sells the sock for like $5. I may get one to try for the heck of it. If it fits great, if not I'll stick with the dress sock.

Who did you get the WWD tenor stand through?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2021-03-17 6:22 p.m.

The pictures of the WWD stand make me sea sick, somehow! I know the angle is intentional but, woof.

jcemu07 · by **jcemu07** » 2021-03-17 6:26 p.m.

The markings on the tubes so you don't pull the tubes all the way out are so much clearer on that tenor WWD stand then my bass stand. I ended up using a small piece of painter tape to mark how far to pull the tubes out to fit my horn.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-03-18 7:32 a.m.

The little felt stick-on slider pads you put on the bottom of furniture legs work brilliantly to lift a bell off the cup and allow the horn to dry.

Elow · by **Elow** » 2021-03-18 9:32 a.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="143737" time="1616019115" user_id="53">

Sure they do, but if you leave the instrument on the stand all the time and don't let it cool down after playing some moisture collects on the dome and creates a ring inside the bell. If you never leave the instrument on the stand right after playing or if you mop it out before leaving it there you will never need the sock.[/quote]

None of the stands I use have a simple "cup" like the old Hamiltons, they have ways for the water to get out in some way.
</QUOTE>

So if i put little holes in the cup for water to escape, i should be good?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-18 10:14 a.m.

[quote="Elow"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="143740" time="1616019382" user_id="3131">

None of the stands I use have a simple "cup" like the old Hamiltons, they have ways for the water to get out in some way.[/quote]

So if i put little holes in the cup for water to escape, i should be good?
</QUOTE>

I had a Hamilton that I repaired using a plunger as the cup. I put several lines of RTV silicone on the plunger to space the bell. Worked fine.

I also like baileyman's suggestion of the felt pads. I think I had a stand with similar pads once (but purposely made that way).

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-03-18 10:19 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]... the felt pads. I think I had a stand with similar pads once (but purposely made that way).[/quote]

There is an old plated steel stand some of the old guys have, three legs braced at the bottom, wood ball at the top on a spring, a ring of felt around it like Saturn, below that two crossed pieces of steel with wool felt pads.

With four legs it would still be brilliant even today.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-18 10:36 a.m.

Yup. But mine got wet in my trunk and rusted badly. I gave it to a percussionist friend of mine to modify into some kind of percussion stand. Its biggest problem was not being terribly sturdy.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-18 11:04 a.m.

Y'all are missing one salient point: getting the Crown Royale bag has definite perks - especially if you get the bag (large) with the whiskey inside!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-18 12:33 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]Y'all are missing one salient point: getting the Crown Royale bag has definite perks - especially if you get the bag (large) with the whiskey inside![/quote]

But the bottle makes it hard to put the trombone on the stand :tongue:

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2021-03-22 5:02 p.m.

Well I guess you gotta empty the bottle...waste not, want not - just drink it! Maybe share it with your friends...

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-03-22 5:13 p.m.

[quote="ssking2b"]Maybe share it with your friends...[/quote]

<B>Friends</B>? Trombonists got friends? :horror: :idk:

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2021-03-22 7:08 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="ssking2b" post_id="144135" time="1616446956" user_id="3785">
Maybe share it with your friends...[/quote]

<B>Friends</B>? Trombonists got friends? :horror: :idk:
</QUOTE>

They have friends if they have booze!

Jim Scott

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2021-03-23 11:01 p.m.

[quote="Elow"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="143740" time="1616019382" user_id="3131">

None of the stands I use have a simple "cup" like the old Hamiltons, they have ways for the water to get out in some way.[/quote]

So if i put little holes in the cup for water to escape, i should be good?
</QUOTE>

I have drilled holes in my stand's cups. Doesn't affect the structural integrity of the cup a bit (drill between the inside support ribs).

I wish they would make a cup that had well defined vertical ridges on the horn side of the cup (horn rests on the ridges, air circulates/water drains between the ridges). Such a cup would work from a moisture mitigation perspective socked or un-socked. (and wouldn't cost a nickel more to make).

There is no good reason for the cup to form a seal with the bell. Ridges would hold the horn just fine and dandy.

Rubber/soft plastic discs could be glued to the cup to provide space for air to circulate.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-03-24 12:47 a.m.

[quote="baileyman"]There is an old plated steel stand some of the old guys have, three legs braced at the bottom, wood ball at the top on a spring, a ring of felt around it like Saturn, below that two crossed pieces of steel with wool felt pads.[/quote]

I had one of those. (I'm a certified "old guy.") If I recall, it was nowhere near as good, sturdy, or stable, as modern trombone stands. (I have no idea where it is now!) :idk:

A good stand, even if it is a bit pricey, becomes a sunk cost, and is worth it to protect the much more valuable trombone that rests on it. I have several nice ones. :clever:

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2021-03-24 9:17 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="baileyman" post_id="143778" time="1616077145" user_id="160">
There is an old plated steel stand some of the old guys have, three legs braced at the bottom, wood ball at the top on a spring, a ring of felt around it like Saturn, below that two crossed pieces of steel with wool felt pads.[/quote]

I had one of those. (I'm a certified "old guy.") If I recall, it was nowhere near as good, sturdy, or stable, as modern trombone stands. (I have no idea where it is now!) :idk:

</QUOTE>

Yep, I had one. No idea where it came from, and all these years later no idea where it went, but all the old timey guys had them, and they were never all that good. But you weren't a real gigging trombone player without it.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-03-24 11:20 a.m.

FYI here's my stand:

<ATTACHMENT filename="stand.JPG" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~stand.JPG</ATTACHMENT>

Here with a horn:

<ATTACHMENT filename="stand with horn.JPG" index="2">~~[attachment=2]~~stand with horn.JPG</ATTACHMENT>

Here testing for proximity to sax players:

<ATTACHMENT filename="woah.JPG" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~woah.JPG</ATTACHMENT>

I tried to attach a movie showing it knocked about without incident, but I cannot figure out this forum software. Anyway, you can see the felt pads for ventilation. And btw, slightly reconfigured this stand will hold the hugest contra.

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2021-03-24 11:50 a.m.

I'd love to see some pictures of the car!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-24 2:17 p.m.

I've seen this thing in action and can confirm it works great. Note that the bottom is an IV stand (medical equipment) and is light but sturdy.

From the angle in the third picture it still righted itself (although if the slide was on the tipped side it might not). Important part is that the center of mass is still inside of the shape defined by the legs.

wjtaggart · by **wjtaggart** » 2022-05-20 10:53 a.m.

[quote="timothy42b"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="144231" time="1616561255" user_id="158">

I had one of those. (I'm a certified "old guy.") If I recall, it was nowhere near as good, sturdy, or stable, as modern trombone stands. (I have no idea where it is now!) :idk:

[/quote]

Yep, I had one. No idea where it came from, and all these years later no idea where it went, but all the old timey guys had them, and they were never all that good. But you weren't a real gigging trombone player without it.
</QUOTE>

Discovered this group looking for fit information on the k&m 14990 stand. First new stand I’ve purchased in 50+ years, replacing the “old guy” stand I’ve been using all this time. It holds the horn up, but isn’t steady, and 20 or so years ago I had a bad accident with it — knocked my horn over coming out from a side curtain. Bad stuff.

I’ve not done this before now because I worried about the support of the new stand sticking up into the throat of the bell- is there any concern of distortion of the throat by that part by the weight of the horn? I’ve set the heights that the uppermost part almost stops bell movement when resting on the cup and the slide is off the ground.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2022-05-20 3:35 p.m.

The Old Guy Stand is almost brilliant. The sprung ball with felt allows the bell to dry a bit. The four felts below don't soak the inner bell surface. It folds up nicely small.

However, the spring ball probably isn't even needed as the rest may do the job. And it only has three legs. To me that's the big issue: the more legs the better. (My stand has five and I do not ever worry about tipping over.) The maker could have dramatically improved the stand by adding a fourth leg, and easily. That's why it's almost brilliant.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-05-20 3:52 p.m.

I think the reason for 3 legs is that the three points define a plane and if there were four points (or five, for that matter) you overdefine the plane and unless all are perfectly set up the result is a wobble.

My issue with the Old Guy stand (and I had one for a while also) is the flimsy construction. This was also my complaint about the K&M In Bell stand. If the post were nicely rigid, the tendency to unbalance and tip over is dramatically reduced. This can be enhanced by making sure the slide is positioned near one of the extending legs. If the slide is positioned midway between the legs it makes for the most unstable condition.

OneTon · by **OneTon** » 2022-05-20 6:07 p.m.

Everything is a trade off. I use only 14990 k&m stands for everything after a standard Hamilton stand failed under a Duo-Gravis, causing damage to the trombone. One K&M stand is restricted to the house because it is no longer adjustable with my hands.

I make sure all three legs are fully supported if the stand is placed on a hearth or low coffee table to avoid animals. A leg hanging off can allow the stand to walk off the raised surface and fall. K&M 14990 legs are long. Fully supported, stability is enhanced. Carelessness is fully rewarded.

The K&M 14990 is stable without positioning the slide over a leg support. If the slide lock is not fully engaged or the stand height has been improperly set, there will be no dent in the slide crook.

I always have a worn out, black, 50% wool, 50% cotton sock to hang over the bell support. The typical sock holes allow for adjustment of the friction knobs. No marks are left on the bell and the wool absorbs condensation well. I don’t really care to advertise for Crown Royal but if that is a specification requirement for you, various sizes are usually available for purchase on eBay with low risk and without the alcohol. I also realize that will leave most trombonechat users without a friend.

jbeatenbough · by **jbeatenbough** » 2022-05-27 9:48 a.m.

I've added a hose clamp to my two "stay-at-home" Hamilton stands to make sure they don't telescope down. For the road, I mostly use K&M. For church, I donated 4 Hercules DS520B stands so we wouldn't have to carry stands in/out and so we would look the same - then 2 more trombone players showed up...lol. Imagine that... 6 trombones in a church orchestra.

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-05-27 10:35 a.m.

The ideal stand for home use would be hollow and have a fan that blew air up through the tubing when you put it back on the stand. Keep the inside dry and it will last much longer.

boneagain · by **boneagain** » 2022-05-28 6:09 a.m.

[quote="timothy42b"]The ideal stand for home use would be hollow and have a fan that blew air up through the tubing when you put it back on the stand. Keep the inside dry and it will last much longer.[/quote]

oooh.... a warm air turbine so the horn didn't cool down and condense and change pitch while we count all our allotted rests during the places the strings and woodwinds carry the tune...

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-05-28 1:06 p.m.

What do folks suggest for a good bass 'bone stand? I have a Hamilton and a portable K&M, but neither is something I'd trust with my TR-185.

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2022-05-28 2:38 p.m.

[quote="jorymil"]What do folks suggest for a good bass 'bone stand? I have a Hamilton and a portable K&M, but neither is something I'd trust with my TR-185.[/quote]

I don't think I'd trust the portable K and M with anything but a small tenor, and even then I would prefer the 14985 (the one with tube legs) over it. You might get the 14985 to work with a bass if you're careful, but...

My choices are the K and M 14990 or, should you be able to find one, the 14991, aka the UMI stand. These are some of the most stable and strongest stands readily available. The UMI stand has longer legs that have a bend just before the feet giving extra height, which is ideal for the larger throat of a typical bass trombone (mine stays with the Besson I own).

Others may recommend the Woodwind Design carbon fiber stand, which is fairly pricy and seats the horn using the trombone's center of gravity for balance. YMMV.

pompatus · by **pompatus** » 2022-05-28 2:48 p.m.

I’ve used the K&M 14990 for the past 20 years with various bass trombones, and have never worried about them. As with any trombone stand, just make sure you adjust it well, with the shaft of the stand up into the bell throat, and low enough so the tip of the slide is 1/2” (1cm) from the floor.

Alternatively, Sheridan Brass, maker of the Get-A-Grip, used to have a seriously heavy duty bass trombone stand listed on their site, and you might contact them to see if they have one to sell. It was designed similarly to the HornGuys contrabass trombone stand, which you might also be able to modify to work...

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/the-h ... bone-stand">https://www.hornguys.com/products/the-horn-guys-contrabass-trombone-stand</LINK_TEXT>

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2022-05-28 3:59 p.m.

K&M 14990, all the way! :good:

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2022-05-30 9:05 a.m.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2022-05-30 12:19 p.m.

[quote="wjtaggart"]...

I’ve not done this before now because I worried about the support of the new stand sticking up into the throat of the bell- is there any concern of distortion of the throat by that part by the weight of the horn? I’ve set the heights that the uppermost part almost stops bell movement when resting on the cup and the slide is off the ground.[/quote]

You definitely don't want the top knob wedged into the bell throat of the horn. You want to adjust the dome so that that top knob does not get stuck in the bell throat. You should be able to wriggle the bell throat and confirm this. I think that is what you have done, yes?...

wjtaggart · by **wjtaggart** » 2022-06-11 12:16 p.m.

Yes :-)

Thanks

brwr · 2024-09-18 5:26 a.m.

I'm not sure if the UMI stand can be ordered on its own anymore. It CAN be pieced together by using the K&M sitting tuba tripod with the upper part of a trombone stand. If you do this by ordering two entire stands, then you will have useless leftovers unless you know a tuba player who wants a short-legged sitting stand. Honestly, this sounds nice if you play tuba and appreciate more leg room.

Perhaps a better/cheaper answer—at least in Europe—is to contact K&M for the tuba sitting tripod component and then the top half of a bass or tenor stand (or just order the trombone wall mount and unbolt the shaft). K&M will usually prepare a quote for parts but sometimes refuse (e.g. the entire tripod of a 118 stand) but it might actually cost more than buying the two ready-made stands and cannibalizing them. (Tuba: 70 to 80 euros. Trombone wall mount: 25) :idk:

I find the long-legged tripod (UMI-style) is nice and stable and portable, but one advantage to the shorter 149/9 is that the trombone cone stays at the same height no matter how far out the legs are pulled. That sounds like a strange tradeoff, but I don't lock the legs ever and can set up and break down the stand like a Formula One tire gunner: just grab and push/pull, adjust later as needed without having to pick up the trombone first, as the slide is always the same distance from the floor!

----------

While searching for the right stand for my trombone, I started dabbling in building one. Sure, cymbal stands are great, but what about high-end microphone stands? What if Latch Lake made a trombone stand?

I've built the MOATS—although it's also mother-of-all-expensive. I wanted to build a stand that is extremely bottom heavy, foldable, compact, without high leg support braces, and still visually attractive; basically, a thrice-heavy 14985 with steel parts instead of fiberglass.

The current incarnation uses the three-leg base of a Latch Lake MicKing 1100 (this clamps onto a 1" or 25.4mm diameter tube) attached to a manually cut boom from an old Superlux MS 200 with its 25.5 mm diameter exterior, coupled to around 20 mm diameter in the extension and an insert so a 16 mm tube will slide and clamp securely inside the larger pipe. A Kolberg cone and bumper ball sits on this.

One alternative would be modifying another stand maker's bell cone so it fits onto a larger diameter. (K&M and Kolberg parts have a 16mm diameter.)

<TABLE>~~[table]~~<TR>~~[tr]~~<TD>~~[td]~~ ~~[size=85]~~I have a metal lathe and taps, so I can make a hollow steel rod that's 25.4 mm, threaded to accept a 16mm rod, and then locked together with a long set screw. This is a ton of work and cost for me, plus I'd still need to blue or otherwise darken the steel; I don't have chemicals for that. I'd prefer a telescoping tube over a one-piece stand, but I don't know how to make a reliable twist clutch or tube lock so finding a pre-made one is ideal.

~~[size=70]~~25.4 mm is a weird tube diameter (esp. in Europe) for most music stand makers, and most "fractional inch" pipes (according to various ISO standards) have outer diameters of 33.7 or 26.9 or 22.9 or 26.2 mm. Hydraulic pipes come in whole metric sizes: 25 and 28 mm are common, but 26 and 27 also exist. The difficulty is finding a shop that will sell one pipe to a private customer! It's also possible to get solid bars and/or unfinished steel. These have their own drawbacks.

What I haven't been able to find at all, anywhere, as a telescope pair: 26 to 16 mm, or 25.4 mm to 16.0 mm, or even 1" to 5/8". A four-part telescoping pipe will go from 1" to 5/8". On a short stand, this would look strange and add more parts with potential failure or slipping points. Via McMaster-Carr, it's 110 bucks just for materials, and that would be for unplated metal parts. After shipping costs, it's a no-go for me. I'd rather find two pipes that fit the exact diameters I have.

Most stand distributors/manufacturers don't list each tube measurement, and I don't know how much success I'd have calling Hercules, K&M, Gator, On-Stage, or Ultimate (or even a local metalworker) and asking for an exact telescoping tube pair. Honestly, it was luck that the Superlux was leaning in the corner while I had my calipers out. So, I'll do what I can to get the Superlux to work (e.g. turning the part of the tube that gets inserted in the bell and/or boring out the cone) unless someone happens to know a tubing lock/clamp that'll go from 25.5–26.0 down to 16–15.9 mm.

The Latch Lake Spin Grip does have one very short adapter that is 25.4mm diameter with 16mm internal threads (actually, 5/8-27, they are microphone threads) but AFAIK this doesn't come with the MicKing 1100, so it's an extra cost if I go that route. (I already have that part, so it doesn't cost me squat. I'd like if this design could be copied though.) Worst case scenario: I can order a meter-long, 16mm diameter, blackened, steel, pneumatic tube, cut it to length, and use a die/lathe so it fits on the Spin Grip adapter. Clamp that into the tripod and accept that it can't be unclamped and shortened.

I would also like to try out brazing one day and can source everything I think I'd need for a custom telescope clamp: 40mm-tall, 28mm-wide, metal discs and delrin spacers, plus a manual mill. I'm still undecided on making my own.

~~[size=85]~~UPDATE ON CONES: I ordered the new (plastic) bass trombone cone from the recently revised 149/1. The top is a very tight 16mm but can be cut to a new diameter. The inside and bottom of the cone itself doesn't have a 16mm sleeve with M6 locking screw, so I can decide how to attach it to a tube, but I can also decide whether that tube will be 16mm or wider.

I also ordered a felt Kolberg cone. It fits a 16mm tube and is too expensive to modify, but it does seem like you could force out the 16mm pipe and replace it, gluing in a 20mm pipe.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cost is about 390 U.S. dollars or 530 going with the Kolberg cone. (Compared to the price of the Kolberg stand, it is not a terrible deal. It is more stable than their travel stand and more portable than their fixed stand.)

<TABLE>~~[table]~~<TR>~~[tr]~~<TD>~~[td][size=85]~~The folks at Latch Lake would probably sell you just the tripod as well as a custom stand. The cheapest MicKing 1100 (the straight stand) is more than 250 bucks. I had one already, so it got torn down for this project. The Superlux should be about 50 which is cheaper than buying and working hydraulic tubes. The K&M bell insert is less than 30 bucks shipped within Germany but you might need to cobble together a clamp for it. Altogether you're looking at between 3 and 10 percent of the cost of the instrument it might hold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

… and stability? I'd be more worried of someone breaking their toe on the stand leg or hitting the slide against the tubing than my trombone getting knocked over. I've tipped a Yamaha tenor about 25 degrees to test and it doesn't fall over.

~~[color=#A00000]~~

With what I've discovered building this: only copy this design if you want the heaviest travel stand imaginable plus you have time to spare and money to waste.

For a stable, good looking stand where you don't care about cost, just buy a Kolberg—foldable or fixed, both are nice. If it's not heavy enough for your taste, figure out how to screw in a Manhasset 2.5lb weight (Model 2700) underneath, or just any old barbell weight from a yard sale.

If you care about cost, any of the three current K&M models are excellent.

sf105 · by **sf105** » 2024-09-18 10:03 a.m.

I saw photos years ago of someone replacing the legs of a K&M stand with fibreglass. Looked very promising.

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