Williams 6 - Relacquer, Restore, or Leave Alone?

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-10 7:21 p.m.

I just picked up a Williams 6 in need of some cosmetic love. Mechanically the horn is great - no inner slide wear, slide is good, original spit valve works like a charm, etc. But a lot of the lacquer is missing and the difference between patina and lacquer is stark. What should I do?

Also, I've never really understood the aversion some people have to relacquering/restoring/overhauling. Perhaps someone can explain it to me. Thanks!

The poll allows you to pick up to two different options, so choose wisely.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-12-10 7:22 p.m.

You can strip the lacquer and then apply renaissance wax. My friend just did this and it looks great.

glenp · by **glenp** » 2020-12-10 7:27 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]You can strip the lacquer and then apply renaissance wax. My friend just did this and it looks great.[/quote]

I've been considering this approach. Any idea how frequently you need to re-apply renaissance wax to prevent tarnish?

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-10 7:35 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]You can strip the lacquer and then apply renaissance wax. My friend just did this and it looks great.[/quote]

I'd rather strip it and go full patina (maybe even accelerating the process chemically). I don't want to do any maintenance to keep it looking a certain way, really.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-12-10 7:37 p.m.

[quote="glenp"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="133405" time="1607646178" user_id="3642">
You can strip the lacquer and then apply renaissance wax. My friend just did this and it looks great.[/quote]

I've been considering this approach. Any idea how frequently you need to re-apply renaissance wax to prevent tarnish?
</QUOTE>

It seems to last for as long as you avoid touching it too much.

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2020-12-10 7:53 p.m.

Missing poll option: show us pics!

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-10 8:09 p.m.

I'll send some rough pics soon.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2020-12-10 8:32 p.m.

Ha! You would be the one who bought that horn. I vote to strip it!

Jimkinkella · by **Jimkinkella** » 2020-12-10 10:30 p.m.

I tried out a Williams (4) once that had gone through a partial blueprint and full restoration.

By far the best Williams that I’d ever played.

But if you like the way it plays, I’d probably strip it.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-12-10 10:35 p.m.

I've played alongside a Williams 6 that was stripped and eventually relacquered. It sounded (and looked) great! :good:

Wish I'd made the owner an offer. :weep:

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2020-12-11 11:05 a.m.

If you're really happy with how it sounds and plays right now, don't mess with it.

Ya can't play shiny.

bimmerman · by **bimmerman** » 2020-12-11 2:14 p.m.

I vote fancy finish, but I like shiny things.

ngrinder · 2020-12-11 2:23 p.m.

If you like how it plays, leave it alone. I'm sure you know....but anything you do to it will affect how it plays.

That being said, stripping is the least invasive/best looking thing you can do (in my humble opinion, of course).

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2020-12-11 6:54 p.m.

How the horn will play after the work is done really depends on "who" does the work. Look for a tech who knows the value of older horns, and knows how to treat them. It is absolutely possible to do a complete overhaul/refinish without negatively impacting the performance qualities of the instrument. It is all about knowing what to go after and what to leave.

Jimkinkella · by **Jimkinkella** » 2020-12-11 10:10 p.m.

[quote="hornbuilder"]How the horn will play after the work is done really depends on "who" does the work.[/quote]

Agreed.

The fully "overhauled" 4 I tried out was done by Robb Stuart.

Still kicking myself for not buying it.

Stripping is fairly benign, once you start popping joints apart - all fingers crossed!

But if you can find juuuust the right people with the technology, they can rebuild it.

I'd suggest going all in with a full rebuild / restore as my 1st choice, or strip the bell down to nothing as the economical choice.

Not to hijack the thread, but....

The topic of quality /concept of assembly & reassembly vs. materials (parts) might be an interesting standalone topic, especially including Williams / Minick / Shires / Rath / M&W - local custom guys Brad Close / BAC / Brasslab etc. (no dig intended if you're not listed)

I think the variances in the Bach and Conn eras have been beat hard enough with the rubber hoses.

I'll see if I can put some thought into a coherent thread.

PM me if you have any ideas to add to the original thought / post, it's going to be a couple of days.

BTW Brian, you wouldn't recognize the Courtois you had sold me, most joints reworked, stripped bell, some new pieces, screwbell...

Maybe I'm not the best judge of keeping horns stock...

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-12 1:17 p.m.

Excellent points about a relacquer/overhaul being fine, if done right.

It appears to be tie between leaving it along or stripping it so far, but let's see what time tells.

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-21 12:21 a.m.

Clear winner so far is leaving it alone, but I'm not sure. Maybe I'll put out a few feelers about how much a restore might cost. If anyone wants to chime in with info about that, I'll happily accept.

jbeatenbough · by **jbeatenbough** » 2020-12-28 5:05 p.m.

I had the bell section of a 2b professionally stripped, de-dented and lacquered. It plays fantastic and looks beautiful.

It was about $400, so would I do it again...probably not... LOL (was done by Rich Ita in Marietta Georgia).

I think for my next rebuild, I'll strip it and patina it (either natural or accelerated).

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-28 5:32 p.m.

Does anyone here know how easy old Williams lacquer would be to strip? I imagine it's pretty easy, maybe cellulose or something. I might do that.

Cotboneman · by **Cotboneman** » 2020-12-29 8:24 p.m.

I like new things, even scratched finish. I have problems with raw brass, so I voted for strip and relacquer!

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-12-29 8:35 p.m.

I'm thinking most likely of stripping. Any advice for the most effective way to pull Williams lacquer?

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2020-12-30 12:00 p.m.

If there is an inconspicuous spot, and lacquer thinner works there, it would be a benign solvent to use.

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Williams 6 - Relacquer, Restore, or Leave Alone?