Name this trombone!
- SDG
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Dec 11, 2020
FOUND: In an attic, covered with dust, this remarkably playable rotary valve trombone. Very lightweight, sounds almost like a baritone horn, no markings.
Can anybody identify this horn?
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Can anybody identify this horn?
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- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I would doubt Thein. More likely one of the myriad Markneukirchen makes that were flooding the market before World War II (and even before World War I).
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The snakes say German or possibly Czech. Beyond that?
There were dozens if not hundreds of small shops operating in the Kraslice/Markneukirchen region at one time or another. Unless an instrument is marked, it's almost impossible to tell who made it. Some craftsmen had "signatures", but those would sometimes be passed down generations from father to son and/or master to apprentice - not to mention baldfaced copying of high-end product by unscrupulous competitors.
I, too, would doubt any association with Kruspe or Thein. I'd expect their work to be clearly marked.
There were dozens if not hundreds of small shops operating in the Kraslice/Markneukirchen region at one time or another. Unless an instrument is marked, it's almost impossible to tell who made it. Some craftsmen had "signatures", but those would sometimes be passed down generations from father to son and/or master to apprentice - not to mention baldfaced copying of high-end product by unscrupulous competitors.
I, too, would doubt any association with Kruspe or Thein. I'd expect their work to be clearly marked.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
I would name it “Beautiful,” but then I’m partial to old things.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
Unsigned instruments were sometimes the work of apprentices.
Yes, German or Czech (lots of valved instruments made in Bohemia - they had a long history of valve trombones in the Austrian orbit). This is all conjecture and I could be wrong, but...water key says 20th century, so does what looks like a small-ish bore. Valve trombone in that area in the 20th century, and the lyre holder, both say town band or military band. Orchestral players in that region gradually went back to slides in the late 19th century, I think.
Tuning slide looks like it's inserted the wrong way around (water key should be on the lower tube and face down, not up), which indicates single bore.
Precise maker or vintage is almost impossible to identify when those instruments are not signed. Can't guess based on the sleeve ornaments as those are very typical. Also snake ornaments are rarely a tell, as there were many makers using similar styles, and also many makers made (and still do) instruments with different styles of snakes. This particular style of snakes is maybe the most common, so not a good clue.
Yes, German or Czech (lots of valved instruments made in Bohemia - they had a long history of valve trombones in the Austrian orbit). This is all conjecture and I could be wrong, but...water key says 20th century, so does what looks like a small-ish bore. Valve trombone in that area in the 20th century, and the lyre holder, both say town band or military band. Orchestral players in that region gradually went back to slides in the late 19th century, I think.
Tuning slide looks like it's inserted the wrong way around (water key should be on the lower tube and face down, not up), which indicates single bore.
Precise maker or vintage is almost impossible to identify when those instruments are not signed. Can't guess based on the sleeve ornaments as those are very typical. Also snake ornaments are rarely a tell, as there were many makers using similar styles, and also many makers made (and still do) instruments with different styles of snakes. This particular style of snakes is maybe the most common, so not a good clue.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]Tuning slide looks like it's inserted the wrong way around (water key should be on the lower tube and face down, not up), which indicates single bore.[/quote]
Good catch! :good:
Good catch! :good:
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I don't think the tuning slide is upside down. The horn is intended to be played with the valve section horizontal and the bell section vertical. Different from how you would play a slide.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have concluded (based on no relevant information) that this rotary-valve trombone was made in Bohemia, early 20th century, and its name is Jiří (pronounced year-jee). [A name I've always loved!]
Prove me wrong! <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
Prove me wrong! <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
- euphobone
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Jun 15, 2020
Also, looks like you have a large shank mouthpiece barely fitting. You might try a European/Medium shank mouthpiece.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I don't think the tuning slide is upside down. The horn is intended to be played with the valve section horizontal and the bell section vertical. Different from how you would play a slide.[/quote]
I also thought it was just that at first but actually, if you imagine the valve section horizontal the water key is on the top of the tube rather than the bottom
I also thought it was just that at first but actually, if you imagine the valve section horizontal the water key is on the top of the tube rather than the bottom
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]Why can't we just call it Jurgen (George)? ;)[/quote]
You been watching Looney Tunes cartoons again? :lol:
<YOUTUBE id="ArNz8U7tgU4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNz8U7tgU4</YOUTUBE>
You been watching Looney Tunes cartoons again? :lol:
<YOUTUBE id="ArNz8U7tgU4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNz8U7tgU4</YOUTUBE>
- SDG
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Dec 11, 2020
[quote="euphobone"]Also, looks like you have a large shank mouthpiece barely fitting. You might try a European/Medium shank mouthpiece.[/quote]
Good observation. There was no mouthpiece in the case. All I had were a couple in the car I use with my everyday "work" horn, a late-50s vintage Conn 72H, so that's the only way I could play it.
Good observation. There was no mouthpiece in the case. All I had were a couple in the car I use with my everyday "work" horn, a late-50s vintage Conn 72H, so that's the only way I could play it.